Thinning guidelnes?

[SaturnRaycer]

I'm looking for some general guidelines for thinning acrylic paints. I'm not looking for washes, but rather general guide for color application such as model car bodies. My luck has been spotty at best trying various mixes, including denatured alcohol.

My experience has been mostly with Testors ModelMaster. The following is their guide for solvent based enamels (thinned with mineral spirit)

Gloss: 2 parts thinner:3 parts paint

Flat: 1 part thinner:3 parts paint.

[dlf24]

Believe it or not, and this is not a joke, but for the last 10 years I have been thinning all Tamiya, in fact all kinds of acrylic paints with lacquer thinner. I know it sounds crazy, and it kind of defeats the purpose of acrylic paints. But if if you want amazing results, and silky smooth results, give it a try. I have an Iwata double action, ( with the small cup) and I mix the paint about 50-50 with the lacquer thinner. I tried all the other suggestions with mixed results, but once I started using lacquer thinner, I will never use anything else.

Give it a try.

DLF

[dlf24]

Believe it or not, and this is not a joke, but for the last 10 years I have been thinning all Tamiya, in fact all kinds of acrylic paints with lacquer thinner. I know it sounds crazy, and it kind of defeats the purpose of acrylic paints. But if if you want amazing results, and silky smooth results, give it a try. I have an Iwata double action, ( with the small cup) and I mix the paint about 50-50 with the lacquer thinner. I tried all the other suggestions with mixed results, but once I started using lacquer thinner, I will never use anything else.

Give it a try.

DLF

[JimmyO78]

Tamiya USA told me to start with a 50/50 mix (which is 100%) with X-20A when using their acrylics and adjust it from there. This is a good starting point but you'll find the need to adjust it for some colors. I spray medium wet coats letting it dry 10 to 15 minutes between coats at room temperature. I know others use different things to thin their paint – some with good results – but I stick to the brand.

Just so you know, I normally use Tamiya TS lacquers for gloss surfaces like car bodies and motorcycle bodywork and AS lacquers for different parts of aircraft. I use Acrylics for just about everything else. When using TS lacquers, if I don't have to worry about decals I'll topcoat with TS-13 lacquer clear. If I apply decals then I topcoat with X-22 clear. The acrylic takes a little longer to dry but I've never lost a decal.

On the subject of Gloss and Flat acrylic finishes, I can share how I use X-22 acrylic gloss clear and X-21. Your mileage may vary.

Flat - 10 parts X-22 to 3 parts X-21 THEN 150% to 200% with X-20A
Semi Flat - 10 parts X-22 to 2 parts X-21 THEN 150% to 200% with X-20A
Semi Gloss - 10 parts X-22 to 1 part X-21 THEN 100% to 150% with X-20A
Gloss - Thin X-22 100% to 150% with X-20A

I go as far as 200% on the flat and semi flat mixes and get excellent results but you have to apply it in thin coats. For aircraft I apply thin coats of Flat until the decals look painted on. Normally this is 3 to 4 coats but I’ve done 5 to 6. I’m applying more coats but it gives me a nice smooth flat finish. You don’t have to polish flat coats so the thin mix isn’t a problem.

My Gloss clear mix is a little thicker because I’m going to polish it up and need the film thickness so I don’t cut through it. I usually apply 3 to 4 coats of acrylic gloss and wait a few days before polishing it. It does take time to dry.

I paint indoors with an Artograph 1530 spray booth (vented outside), Iwata HP-CS gravity feed airbrushes with 0.35mm nozzles (standard) and a Power Jet Pro compressor. I only mention the hardware because I'm sure it has some impact on my results.

I Hope this helps.

[bassbison]

This may sound carzy, I have fround water works. Start with a damp brush a lettle paint and that is acrylic paint only. I fround this out when a paint brush fall in to a decale dish. This as worked for me even when mixing two or three colors and wanting to thin the paint down.
So what I have also fround I can use any color for a wash as long it is acrlyic paint and I can do that with 2 part paint - 8 part water or how ever works for you.

[USSDETROIT]

Tamiya USA told me to start with a 50/50 mix (which is 100%) with X-20A when using their acrylics and adjust it from there. This is a good starting point but you'll find the need to adjust it for some colors. I spray medium wet coats letting it dry 10 to 15 minutes between coats at room temperature. I know others use different things to thin their paint – some with good results – but I stick to the brand.

Just so you know, I normally use Tamiya TS lacquers for gloss surfaces like car bodies and motorcycle bodywork and AS lacquers for different parts of aircraft. I use Acrylics for just about everything else. When using TS lacquers, if I don't have to worry about decals I'll topcoat with TS-13 lacquer clear. If I apply decals then I topcoat with X-22 clear. The acrylic takes a little longer to dry but I've never lost a decal.

On the subject of Gloss and Flat acrylic finishes, I can share how I use X-22 acrylic gloss clear and X-21. Your mileage may vary.

Flat - 10 parts X-22 to 3 parts X-21 THEN 150% to 200% with X-20A
Semi Flat - 10 parts X-22 to 2 parts X-21 THEN 150% to 200% with X-20A
Semi Gloss - 10 parts X-22 to 1 part X-21 THEN 100% to 150% with X-20A
Gloss - Thin X-22 100% to 150% with X-20A

I go as far as 200% on the flat and semi flat mixes and get excellent results but you have to apply it in thin coats. For aircraft I apply thin coats of Flat until the decals look painted on. Normally this is 3 to 4 coats but I’ve done 5 to 6. I’m applying more coats but it gives me a nice smooth flat finish. You don’t have to polish flat coats so the thin mix isn’t a problem.

My Gloss clear mix is a little thicker because I’m going to polish it up and need the film thickness so I don’t cut through it. I usually apply 3 to 4 coats of acrylic gloss and wait a few days before polishing it. It does take time to dry.

I paint indoors with an Artograph 1530 spray booth (vented outside), Iwata HP-CS gravity feed airbrushes with 0.35mm nozzles (standard) and a Power Jet Pro compressor. I only mention the hardware because I'm sure it has some impact on my results.

I Hope this helps. how much to thin out tamiya liquid surface primer? I tried 50/50, too runny.I suppose if I put on many thin coats at this ratio I might have worked.Can I thin primer accordingly...maye not at all? to save time, this stuff is hard to clean out of my airbrush.I am still experimenting with surface primer, thinning with tamiya laquer thinner and trying different pressures...your reccomendations?

[golgotha]

Hi,
I have resisted thus far to join with this discussion as it is quite a wide ranging subject, where we will all have had both good and bad experiences with thinning paints for spraying as beside the size of nozzles and varied capability of compressors, in their abilities to be adjusted or not, is not quite as big as environmental situations that can cause more good and bad experiences, due to subjects like humidity, temperature and even air pressure cause changes in capability of paints and thinners, to such an extent that paints may need to have more or less than usual, of the appropriate thinner added to achieve desirable results.

In truth with surface primer, using both Tamiya and the Mr Surfacer range, I would like to suggest that it is mainly easier to use the aerosol containers that companies produce, where by properly shaking and preparing the work area, with things like ventilation and a modicum of practice, it is possible to achieve excellent results, as the product is pre-thinned ready for use. It also avoids having to clean your airbrush with some quite volatile and potentially harmful chemicals.

Although I normally have a base set of ratios, that I have found suit my personal collection of airbrushes, before starting a job proper, I always test my mixtures on some scrap cardboard, adding more thinner or paint, to achieve optimum coverage.
I would like to suggest wasting some paints, by blasting away, trying different ratios, to find some personal baselines and work from there.

I hope that you see this as helpful as I am in no way trying to be critical, as it is a difficult area to really offer any definative solutions to. The airbrushes I use are as follows:- Iwata HP-CH [0.3], Paasch Millenium [small, medium, Large needle/nozzle sets] and one of the Metal Aztek units, that I have never had a problem with, despite some other peoples reports, oh and a Revell Omega Compressor.

Aye,

John

[USSDETROIT]

I do really appreciate your advice and will follow it, I was contemplating using the rattle cans for ease of use and cleanup but was not sure of quality, will go that route.I too have a Paasche mil and have a dedicated double compressor with tank...really thanks for your help:), I think I have it sorted out now.

[golgotha]

You are more than welcome and despite the fact that my main airbrush that I use no is my Iwata unit, the Paasch Millenium is an absolutely great airbrush to work with.
With the rattle cans, the quality is just the same as buying the product in a jar, just thinned to allow it to pass through the nozzle of the can. I would say that the same advice as with using an airbrush is, spray in nice thin even coats and finally invert the can and give it a blast to prevent having to sort out any blockage of the cap, next time you use it.

Aye,

John

[JimmyO78]

USSDETROIT - Tamiya liquid surface primer (in the square jars) isn't my personal choice for airbrushing. I believe it was originally intended for brush application over small imperfections, seam lines etc. I use it for that purpose. I’ve tried airbrushing it too and the high solids content makes it a very coarse and high build primer. Too coarse for me anyway.

I use the aerosol Tamiya Fine Surface Primer. I prep it for use by first decanting it into a jar in a well ventilated area. I immediately mark the height of the material in the jar then let the propellant boil off. This takes a while so let it sit for the afternoon or overnight. Don't put the lid or anything else on the container tight. Leave it loose so the propellant can escape. Once it’s done boiling off, I replace the lost repellant by adding Tamiya Lacquer Thinner up to the mark I made before the propellant boiled off. This gets me back to roughly the original viscosity where I can apply it with an airbrush.

I have thinned it another 25% or so for highly detailed parts where I’m priming to insure adhesion and color hold out but don’t want any loss of detail. The “Fine” primer is excellent and will level itself perfectly in most cases requiring very little finish sanding if your surface was good to begin with. There is also another aerosol Tamiya Surface Primer (without the “Fine” designation). This is a higher build primer than the “Fine”. It sprays better than the thinned liquid surface primer in the bottle and has higher build properties than the “Fine” primer.

Air pressure at my compressor regulator is normally set for 22 psi for airbrushing Tamiya Lacquers or Acrylics. I use a plastic coiled hose that came with my Iwata compressor. This is important as there’s always some loss of air pressure over the length of any hose. My regulator drops to 20 psi when I pull the trigger on my airbrush so there’s a couple of psi there plus whatever the loss is over the length of the hose. Technically we all should have regulators “at the airbrush” because it’s the only way to know for sure what your air pressure really is with the trigger pulled.

You can and should experiment with it to find ratios you’re comfortable with. You’ll find ratios that work for you and your equipment. Try to change one thing at a time and experiment so you know what effect the changes are having on your process.

[USSDETROIT]

golgotha ,Paasche has a improved trigger and valve plunger for the mil that is an improvement over the old one, my airbrush is a few yeas old, much better feel and it assembles much easier, part # VL214M AND mil-13 form paasche online store.

[USSDETROIT]

USSDETROIT - Tamiya liquid surface primer (in the square jars) isn't my personal choice for airbrushing. I believe it was originally intended for brush application over small imperfections, seam lines etc. I use it for that purpose. I’ve tried airbrushing it too and the high solids content makes it a very coarse and high build primer. Too coarse for me anyway.

I use the aerosol Tamiya Fine Surface Primer. I prep it for use by first decanting it into a jar in a well ventilated area. I immediately mark the height of the material in the jar then let the propellant boil off. This takes a while so let it sit for the afternoon or overnight. Don't put the lid or anything else on the container tight. Leave it loose so the propellant can escape. Once it’s done boiling off, I replace the lost repellant by adding Tamiya Lacquer Thinner up to the mark I made before the propellant boiled off. This gets me back to roughly the original viscosity where I can apply it with an airbrush.

I have thinned it another 25% or so for highly detailed parts where I’m priming to insure adhesion and color hold out but don’t want any loss of detail. The “Fine” primer is excellent and will level itself perfectly in most cases requiring very little finish sanding if your surface was good to begin with. There is also another aerosol Tamiya Surface Primer (without the “Fine” designation). This is a higher build primer than the “Fine”. It sprays better than the thinned liquid surface primer in the bottle and has higher build properties than the “Fine” primer.

Air pressure at my compressor regulator is normally set for 22 psi for airbrushing Tamiya Lacquers or Acrylics. I use a plastic coiled hose that came with my Iwata compressor. This is important as there’s always some loss of air pressure over the length of any hose. My regulator drops to 20 psi when I pull the trigger on my airbrush so there’s a couple of psi there plus whatever the loss is over the length of the hose. Technically we all should have regulators “at the airbrush” because it’s the only way to know for sure what your air pressure really is with the trigger pulled.

You can and should experiment with it to find ratios you’re comfortable with. You’ll find ratios that work for you and your equipment. Try to change one thing at a time and experiment so you know what effect the changes are having on your process. that is news to me:confused: I assumed the liquid surface primer (square 40 mil bottle) could be airbrushed..that explains my poor results after trying so many different solutions.I find tamiya info to be sparse on this and other products? like the X-21 flat base intened use(now I know) not sure what their online info states.I will go with the rattle can, I hear of many advanced modelers who use canned primerhowever I always thought anything other than airbrush application was infereior, great forum here:D I love this hobby and tamiya is my fave paint, I try to stick with all tamiya products...less confusing.

[USSDETROIT]

I stand corrected, went to tamiya.com and they do states uses for X-21 and liquid surface primer, info on bottle is lacking? so liquid surface primer is like mr dissolved putty?coooooool!:;) tamiya america does state on website "can be further diluted using tamiya laquer thinner,allowing it to be used in airbrushes." anyway......I will use rattle can form now on.

[JimmyO78]

No problem, I'm glad the information was helpful. I didn't pop out of the womb with an airbrush in my hand either.;) It was and still is a learning process.